Morgause or Morgana?

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

EDIT August 2011: New version

Who is Mordred's mother? This is a list of ancient books I read and the parentage of Mordred.

HISTORIA BRITONUM: No Mordred.
ANNALE CAMBRIAE: There is Mordred/Medraut but there is nothing about his parents.
HISTORIA REGUM BRITANNIAE: Mordred è figlio di Anna e Lot. Poiché c'è Lot presuppongo che Anna sia Morgause anche perché Morgause è effettivamente conosciuta come Anna Morgause in altri testi. Inoltre Anna è sorella di Artù.
CHRETIEN DE TROYES: No Mordred. But we have a Morgana and no telling about her children.
CULHWICH AND OLWEN: Nothing of Mordred, Morgause or Morgana.
LANCELOT-GRAIL: I've read a modernization and Morgause was Mordred's mother. I'm not sure about his father.
ALLITERATIVE MORTE ARTHURE: Reading it : D I'll let you know.
MORTE d'ARTHUR: Mordred is the son of Morgause and Arthur

And now the modern books. In this color  the books with Morgana as the mother; in red the book with Morgause as Mordred's mother and dark blue for everything else.

Exiled from Camelot
Corbenic
The mists of Avalon
Down the long wind
Mordred, bastard son
Warlord Chroncles by Cornwell (Mordred is Uther's son but he dies at the beginning. He has a son named Mordred. So there are two Mordred)
Knight Life (?? maybe)
Queen of Camelot
The book of Mordred (Hanratty)
Idylls of the Queen
The round table by Howard Pyle (I'm not sure)
Mordred's Curse
Mordred's Gift
Firelord (for the information thanks to scarfman)
I amMordred (Springer Nancy)
Steinbeck's version
The wicked day and the Merlin trilogy by Mary Stewart
Sword at sunset (Mordred is the son of Arthur and Ygraine, but Ygrain is the daughter of another Ygraine, Arthur's mother.)
The winter prince
The once and future king
Camlud Chronicles di Jack Whyte (Mordred is the son of Arthur and Uther's daughter, but I can't remember her name)
Dark ages of Britain (?)

And the moies...
Camelot (1967) + Camelot musical- Broadway
Doctor Who's episodes
A connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court ('89)
Excalibur
Merlin- the return
Merlin (1998)
Mists of Avalon
Merlin (BBC) - telefilm (we know nothing of his parents)
Merlin and the book of Beasts (we know nothing of his mother)
The knights of the round table (1953) (Mordred is Morgana's husband)

22 recent/modern books with 14 Morgause (with one 'maybe'), 3 Other and 5 Morgana (with 2 'maybe').
And 10 film/telefilm with 3 Other, 1 Morgause and 6 Morgana.

And now we may see when those books were written.
The mists of avalon (1979)
Firelord (still not sure about Mordred's mother) (1980)
Knight Life (still not sure about Mordred's mother) (1987)
Dark ages of Britain (1988)
Mordred, bastard son (2006)

And the movies:
Excalibur (1981)
Connecticut Yankee (1989)
Doctor Who (1989)
Merlin (1998)
Merlin the return (2000)
Mists of Avalon (2001)

Every book and movie is after the publication of The Mists of Avalon.
Please, help me! Are there any other books/movies with Morgana as Mordred's mother before the 1979?

Comments

[scarfman]

I've read Firelord and Morgan(a) is Mordred's mother in it.

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Thank you very very much : D

[sigune.livejournal.com]

Well, according to my Oxford Guide to Arthurian Literature and Legend, Morgana is also Mordred's mother in C. J. Riethmüller's Launcelot of the Lake (1848) and Francis Coutts's The Romance of King Arthur (1907). I confess I haven't read either. Maybe this is the time to start looking for them... ;-)

I think that we get more "Morgana is Mordred's mother" in television and film because script writers like to keep the cast small. They then conflate the characters of Morgana and Morgause. For me, Mordred's mother is and always will be Morgause. The fact that I hate Mists of Avalon may or may not have something to do with that :P.

[sigune.livejournal.com]

Heh. I guess that people who aren't widely read in Arthurian material often don't realise just how many versions there are... And there is no "basic" version. Most of us who write Arthurian stories probably use Malory as a basis - though I think you're right and "Mists of Avalon" has become the reference book for many people nowadays. (Bah!)

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Sorry I deleted the message because I found a mistake (my English is rusty ;_;) and still I don't know how to edit messages on lj. (Again, sorry, I reposted it)

I use Malory too : D
I happily quote the Bah.
But I have to admit that The mists of Avalon is still better than Merlin.

[sigune.livejournal.com]

The writers of Merlin seem to be the Kings of Lousy Plotting - it's such a shame. I confess that I keep looking anyway, because I like the actors so much. They are doing a good job. Too bad they are stuck with bad scripts!

Mists of Avalon has its merits in the way it manages to transpose Malory to the Dark Ages, but I detest all the New Age rubbish and the pseudo-feminism. I'm too much of a feminist to enjoy the book ;-).

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

I keep watching because I hope that, someday, Kay will appear. And I still need to know what will happen to Mordred.
I watched it because of the actors too, at the beginning, but now I only like Angel Coulby and the actor who plays Gawain. I think I'll abandon it as soon as Camelot-starz starts! <3

Well, I'm not a feminist but I didn't like the new age twist neither. I'm too much a scientist, I think X°D there are just some things that I can't stand.

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Ohh, thank you! Then there are some books written earlier with Morgana as the mother. I'll try to look for them : D

Yes, I think that too. Morgause is always an extra character and Morgana is much more famous. It's a pity, I love Morgause and the interactions between Mordred and his half brothers.
We share the same feelings for the Mists of Avalon XD I actually liked it but it is too famous.
I usually write stories about Mordred and once a reader sent me a message: "Sorry, I wanted to point out that you made a mistake. Morgause is Morgana and Igraine's sister and she is Mordred' aunt. Morgana is Mordred's mother. I don't know if it was a mistake or your choice..."
WTF.

[dodsdmr.livejournal.com]

Wow, really? Mists of Avalon is my favorite book about Arthur legend, actually! It's how I got in this fandom... I think Merlin (tv show) is pretty bad compared to ANY of the other versions of the legend...

[sigune.livejournal.com]

Well, I certainly agree about Merlin. I wish the show's writers would take their job more seriously! And as I said above, I do think Marion Bradley does a good job transposing Malory's plots to the Dark Ages. But I can't stand her depiction of women. I started reading Mists twice and twice I abandoned it. Not my thing at all, I'm afraid :-).

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

I actually read it all twice : D
And I agree about the women. I didn't like expecially Morgan. It's a pity because I really like her usually (as in Idylls of the Queen. She was great).

[ariestess]

Well, if nothing else, this is giving me a good wishlist for completing my collection as much as I can...

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

And I particularly rec Idylls of the Queen and The winter prince : D
Bad English, sorry, it's too early in the morning and not my first language.

[teliesin.livejournal.com]

A good Modern version by Patricia Kennealy-Morrison has Mordred's (Mordryth) mother as Morgause (Marguessan) but Arthur is not the father. The Trilogy is "The Hawk's Gray Feather", "The Oak above the Kings" and "The Hedge of Mists".

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Thank you!
I never heard of that series <3

[teliesin.livejournal.com]

It gets its roots more from Mabinogion/Celtic origins than say Mallory. It is a little different in that it does not take place on Earth. The Celts of ancient earth led by Brendan left earth to find a new home among the stars and Sidhe went with them. Might sound crazy I know but the characters, dialog, plot and spirit are all first class. I have no trouble keeping it on the shelves with The Mabinogion, Mallory, Arthur's Britain etc. or rereading it from time to time.

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

It seems interesting and very original : D thank you

Sword at Sunset correction

[(Anonymous)]

Medraut/Mordred's mother is Ygerna, who is an illegitimate daughter of Uther. She is bitter at being ignored whereas Artos/Arthur is taken under the wing of Uther and later Ambrosius. Hence her deliberate seduction of Artos and later emotional poisoning of her son.

Also, earlier legends blend Morgan and Morgause, and Mordred is Arthur's nephew and usually heir. By the time the incest theme is introduced, it's always Morgause that's the mother. Modern retellings usually find it easier to ignore Morgause and have Morgan do it all.

Re: Sword at Sunset correction

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you! I remembered the name Igraine as Mordred's mother because one of the variants is Ygerna.

[situsnow.livejournal.com]

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[(Anonymous)]

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[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I will probably re-write this because I have read more books and I have other informations : D Thanks <3

[swamywinchester.livejournal.com]

Mordred is Morgana's son in "The High Kings" by Joy Chant, too

[lucre-noin.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps you will add my Arthurian books to your list. In my House of Pendragon series Morgause is Modred's mother.

The Firebrand 2003
The Recruit 2007
Amber Quill Press
Debra A. Kemp