(no subject)

[bluerapunzel.livejournal.com]

The King Arthur movie trailer is up:
http://kingarthur.movies.go.com/main.html

It looks good, but is it just me, or is the entire trailer war-themed? It looks a complete war movie. I love war movies and all but that's really not the basis of the King Arthur legend.

Guinevere looks the complete opposite of every description of her ever written--what happened to the docile, blond haired, green eyed Guin we all know? Maybe this version of her will be better though.

It's hard to judge quite yet, I mean, it's just the trailer. What do you all think?

Comments

[braedyn.livejournal.com]

I saw it, too, and I think it's crap. I HATE Keira Knightly as Guinevere. In once scene (did you notice?) she's wearing a "medieval bikini top"...at least that's what it looks like. Please. I'm debating whether or not I should even subject myself to such plain disrespect for the true legend.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

Hmm. That doesn't sound like every description of Gwen ever written to me, unless 'every description' means 'Marion Zimmer Bradley', who changed a hell of a lot of legend and history for her own purposes. I personally am rather tired of her characterizations being taken for the 'true legend', which has a variety of characterizations anyway because there isn't One True Legend.

*shrug* I'd kind of like to see a non-docile Gwen, myself. There aren't nearly enough of them, and if one is trying to make a somewhat historically accurate movie, it doesn't make sense for the wife of someone like Arthur to be meek and innocent.

Trailers don't always reflect movies accurately, anyway, and emphasizing the war will (theoretically) draw in the teen male crowd. Out of curiosity, when you refer to the 'basis of the King Arthur legend', are you referring to the Welsh and earlier oral tradition or to the courtley medieval stuff, or something else entirely? Because at base, I'd say the Arthur legend is simply about a king (or warleader) who held back the Saxons for a time. And this movie definitely seems to be based early than the medieval -- Malory and so on.

[(Anonymous)]

docile, blond haired, green eyed

Hello, and what crack are you smoking?

[lyramira.livejournal.com]

I thought the best historical ideas about Arthur we have revolve around his war leadership. And I'm up for a non-docile Guinevere.

[bluerapunzel.livejournal.com]

Excuse me! I'm up for a non-docile Guinevere too! And I LIKE seeing a different version of her! I'm just stating that most of the descriptions I've read of her have been different from what is being shown in the trailer. And that there is more to the King Arthur story than just the war. I am interested in the war aspects as well, but the trailer focuses only on that. And like I stated originally, I can't judge from just the trailer. There's no need to act condescending.

I am excited for the movie. I think it looks like a more historically accurate version than the films that have been put out about him.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

"Guinevere looks the complete opposite of every description of her ever written--what happened to the docile, blond haired, green eyed Guin we all know?"

Doesn't sound like 'most of the descriptions you've read of her' to me. Perhaps a more careful wording might have helped keep people from misinterpreting you.

I don't think I was condescending, personally. I disagreed, politely, with what you wrote (I am, after all, not capable of telling that you didn't mean quite what you wrote). I've seen a lot of "How dare they make Gwen anything other than meek and mild the MZB intended?!" about this movie and I'm rather tired of it, as I am tired of the idea that there's somehow a One True Version of the legend somewhere.

[bluerapunzel.livejournal.com]

Yes, I should have worded it more carefully. That is not what I meant to say. I wrote it late at night. And I don't think MZB's version is the one true way. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I was curt; I'm rather oversensitive on the whole topic at this point.

[starvingartist3.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Looks ok...I'd like to see more of Merlin myself. *nods* Yeah, I'd go see it out of curiosity more then anything. I have to wonder if Bruckheimer will do a good job or not...

I personally am rather tired of her characterizations being taken for the 'true legend'

Egads, do I ever agree with you. Someone did this really nice picture of Morgan Le Fay over at Elfwood, right? Then that bought the MBZ heads out of the woodwork screaming about how they didn't picture Morgan as evil at all and that it really bothered them, etc, that she wasn't bad for real, etc. Retards.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

Erk. I have no problem with retelling legends to make the antagonists sympathetic -- it's part of why they're legends, really, the right to take them and retell them and find your own meaning, the fact that there is no One True Canon.

But...Mists of Avalon is just another modern retelling. Not the worst, IMO, but not the best either (again, IMO). It's not part of the body of legend, and even if it were, it would still just be one other version. In the earliest stories, Medraut wasn't conceived by incest, and in some he wasn't even Arthur's enemy. Arthur didn't sleep with Morgause or Morgan in many of the stories. Hell, Gwenhwyfar wasn't always unfaithful, and that's one of the pieces of the story most people think of as a core part of the legend. I don't understand how anyone can talk about any Arthurian character like s/he has One True Personality/Role In The Story.

[starvingartist3.livejournal.com]

I agree 100%. If one happens to like Mists of Avalon,, then it's all good, I won't begrudge you. I never was interested in it myself. But some pple go way overboard and act like MZB's books are "omg,the 1 TrU veRshun!!1one".

I don't understand how anyone can talk about any Arthurian character like s/he has One True Personality/Role In The Story.

Isn't it just irriatating? I chalk a lot of this up to pure ignorance.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

Isn't it just irriatating? I chalk a lot of this up to pure ignorance.

Dunno, but I think it's kind of a pity. That's one of the things I love about legends, how there are layers and layers and different versions.

[broadwayblonde.livejournal.com]

In my opinion Kiera does a very good job of developing her character... I beleive that she will do a tremendous job in this film.

[broadwayblonde.livejournal.com]

Yes.. i was expecting a blonde haired green eyed girl as well.. But i think that maybe Keira Knightley may do well. She is a great actress. I just hope she can pull it off..

[mistressjennie.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm a newbie here, but I guess there's no better way to say hello than to chime in with an opinion of my own.
While I agree that MZB's version of Gwen isn't the only one out there, or the best one either, she *may* have done a bit of homework in coming up with her version of the Queen. Gwenwhyfar, Guinevere, Genvieve, etc, etc, are all versions of the same Cornish/Welsh name. (As is my own name, Jennie)
The translation of the name has a few versions, among them is "white" or "fair" + "lady" or "phantom." When Queen Gwenhwyfar was described as the fairest woman in all the land, it was that her name declared her so. But, if you also note, fair can be defined as "beautiful" as well as light in color... So Bradley could have been taking that into consideration when she described her as blonde and light eyed (a perfect contrast for the authors convienece, to the dark eyed/haired Morgaine, don't you think?)
I myself am up for a more feisty Gwen than Bradley made her out to be... she is where I got my name after all. Besides, a woman who broke her marriage vows for true love had to be at least a *little* more strong willed and feisty than Bradley made her. A few years ago I bumped into a book called The Book of Guinevere (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2WCXCTX728&isbn=0760710945&itm=1) which was all about the different versions of the Queen, and the authors who tweaked her image for their own purposes or to suit their own morality. (Tennyson anyone?) It's concise and well documented, as well as a quick read. Sadly the book is out of print, but your could probably find it on ebay or half.com.
Now that I've bored you with my rant, I'll bid you all fare well, and wish you a happy new year.

Welsh, brunette, at least semi-skilled in the arts of self-defense.

[eve-jukes.livejournal.com]

Norma Lorre Goodrich actually wrote a much more solidly researched book called "Guinevere." No matter where you trace her origins from, she wouldn't have been a blue-eyed blond. Morgaine would have been more up to the task, since Anglo-Saxon features were all but non-existent in Wales at the time of her existence. All evidence of wishful, "Protestant-ized" thinking by authors--along the same flawed lines as making Jesus of Nazareth look 'white.'

Her mannerisms are another thing entirely, but MZB's pigeon-holing of the Christianity vs. Paganism clash is *anything* but impartial, and her corruption of Gwenhwyfar has had a huge negative (not to mention misleading!) impact on the character in modern interpretations. About as fair and balanced as Fox News during the O'Reilly Show. -.-

Anyone notice how Kiera gets the leads in Jerry Bruckheimer films? Bias? Good looks?

Re: Welsh, brunette, at least semi-skilled in the arts of self-defense.

[mistressjennie.livejournal.com]

If you note, I didn't say that she *was* blonde or fair, I just offered an interesting historical note about the entymology of her name. Yes, it is in fact a Welsh name... Out of random curiosity about my own name, I have researched it's origins and root words. I really wasn't discussing a "real" Gwen, or where the supposed woman would have come from, but giving a possible insight into an author's taking of poetic liscence after learing these same things about the Welsh language. The public prejudice about Morgan la Fay already existed in Christian versions of the story because of the fact that she bore a child to her own brother and in some instances was described as a sorceress. In this mainly Judeo-Christian world where Arthurian stories are told, we see sorcery as "evil" and therefore dark. An obvious move would be for an author to paint someone physically in their description to get their audience thinking.

Description of Guinvere

[nevakir.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...The role of Guinevere in this movie is similar to the role played by a character of the same name/different spelling in Stephen Lawherd's The Pendragon Cycle. Lawherd sets Guinevere up as a daughter to one of the rebellious Irish kings, who goes to war, spear, sword, and all. During one of his later books, she defends a severely wounded Arthur from assault after returning from a duel with a barbaric horde leader.

I would not say that Guinevere has been wronged; it is possible that she did indeed know the arts of war, as opposed to sitting and waiting as written in T.H. White's The Once and Future King. Again, this is legend, so some poetic license is allowed.